A Hypothetical Conversation Between An Arminian And
A Calvinist
Clark A. Calvinist: Al, why should God let YOU into
heaven?
Al N. Arminian: Because... well I hate to boast... and
please don't take this as boasting, because its just a fact... but I simply
am better than most. I believed in
Jesus while others did not. I accepted
Jesus as my Lord and Savior while most other people did not. Yes, in fact
I accepted Jesus of MY OWN free-will,
because He is a gentleman and He would not force anyone to accept Him if
they did not want to, so God will HAVE to let me into heaven.
Clark A. Calvinist: Jesus may be a gentlemen at times
- whatever that means - but anyone with your kind of gospel is spiritually dead.[17] So, if
anyone ever truly turns to Christ, it is only AFTER God makes them
spiritually alive. [18] And as for accepting Jesus, Jesus doesn't need
you to accept Him, because He is not at your mercy - you are at His
mercy. You need for HIM to accept you [19]... and by the way, when did HE
accept YOU?
Al N. Arminian: But my pastor and the evangelists on
TV told me that I had to accept Jesus, I had to pray the "sinner's prayer"
accepting Him as my Lord and Savior and I did all that.[20]
Clark A. Calvinist: The decision as to who will occupy
heaven is a privilege that belongs to God alone[21]. He decides... He is the
potter. You are the clay[22]. God's Son was slain from before the
foundation of the world - for His people[23]. How do you know whether or
not you are instead one of the vessels of wrath that God created [24]?
Al N. Arminian: But I exercised MY free-will while just
about everyone else did not. They refused the free gift that God offered to
everyone. But I took it when I said that sinner's prayer.
Clark A. Calvinist: God's word says that your will is
in bondage to sin[25]. How did YOU manage to get your will out of bondage?
And the gift of salvation may be free, in that it is freely given - TO WHOM
GOD CHOOSES [26] But, it is not "free" just for the taking by whomever
comes along and wants a cheap ticket to heaven. God's Son dearly paid the
FULL penalty [27] for ALL the sins of THOSE whom His Father gave to Him
[47]to
be His bride. No one will enter into Heaven for whom the Son of God
did not make atonement[28].
Al N. Arminian: But the Bible says that Christ died for
all [29].
Clark A. Calvinist: Al, why do you insist on
interpreting words to mean what you want them to mean? God's Word uses the
word "all" to refer to many things at many times. Sometimes "all" refers to
the whole world. Sometimes it refers to the vast majority of people. Other
times it refers to an entire group or category of people, like the nation of
Israel. Many times in the New Testament it refers to both Jews and
Gentiles [48]. God's Son died
for people of all nations and tongues [49] but not for every single person
who ever lived, else Jesus would never have had to warn anyone about hell.
The way you have interpreted the word "all" is in conflict with the
definition of God's magnificent salvation plan by grace ALONE without ANY
help or response from the spiritually dead sinner. Those who do not have
God's Spirit in them do not realize that they are interpreting the passage
incorrectly. [30]
Al N. Arminian: But the Bible says that God is not
willing that any should perish [31].
Clark A. Calvinist: Yes, it does say that.
And what does that verse mean? From what we know of the rest of the Bible we
know God's Son died so that none of
those whom God the Father gave to the God the Son [32]
will perish.
God's promise [31]
mentioned in that verse you only quoted a portion of was a qualified promise... it was to Abraham
and Abraham's spiritual descendents (God's elect), not to everyone who ever
came into existence. If the
Almighty desired that no single person on earth should perish, then He would
have made sure that His Son had suffered for EVERY single person's sins who
ever lived or died. But since many will be in hell [33], it
should be
obvious to you that Jesus did not suffer for every sin of every person, but
rather only
for His elect bride. God is a god of justice and does not punish sin
twice. He either punishes the innocent Lamb of God on behalf of "the
elect" or He punishes the sinner in hell forever.
Al N. Arminian: But the Bible says that whosoever believes
shall not perish [34].
Clark A. Calvinist: Of course. And all God's elect
children WILL believe. But they won't believe like you believe. They will
believe that they were completely at God's mercy, undone [35], and without
hope in the world. AND they will believe this way only BECAUSE they have a
new nature that is capable of understanding how spiritually blind and
naked[36] and DEAD [17] they were prior to salvation. You apparently never
considered yourself that lost. Hence, you need to ask yourself if you
are truly one of God's elect.
Al N. Arminian: But I don't want to go to the other place. [37]
Clark A. Calvinist: Sorry Al but the truth of the
matter is, those who die holding onto a man-centered gospel like you have (a
gospel that calls the God of election a liar) won't be in heaven [28] and anyway, you would hate it
there. All who dwell therein
were chosen by God. They did not choose Him, so you would be the odd-man
out. You would definitely not be comfortable around so many people who feel
so unworthy - yet so glad - to be there, to have been chosen by God in spite
of their prior sinfulness, rebellion, hatred and anarchy against the King of
Kings and Lord of Lords. They are glad that God used His will to overpower
their will [38] and to redeem them by the blood of the Lamb[39], so that they
could have everlasting life. But don't fret, there's lots of room down below,
and you'll have lots of company there among the many who think like you
think [40].
Al N. Arminian: That's not fair. My God wouldn't create anyone
just to send them to hell.
Clark A. Calvinist: Al, there's a huge problem
with that idea, with your concept of God. Salvation is not a matter of
fairness. If God was to be "fair" as you say, He would send
everyone to Hell [41]. But from before the
foundation of the world [42] He has chosen to
demonstrate His mercy, grace and love to some of the many rebellious lawbreaking
sinners. And as I just said a minute ago, no one is fit for a place of
such utter holiness and moral purity as heaven
until and unless God converts
them.
Al N. Arminian: But I believe God gives everyone an equal chance to get
to heaven.
Clark A. Calvinist: Well Al, you're certainly not
alone in your thinking. There's a world full of people that believe
like you believe. However, salvation is not a matter of chance.
It is a matter of God exercising His prerogative to save whom He wills when
He wills[43].
Al N. Arminian: I don't believe that. If that is true then all we
are is merely puppets of God.
Clark A. Calvinist: Not exactly Al. God
allows us to make certain choices and accomplish some of the things we set
our minds to do[44]. However, because of our
fallen nature, our blindness to our own lostness and sinfulness, we are
incapable - if we have not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit - of choosing
to worship God in Spirit and in Truth[45]. We
are incapable of choosing the kind of God and kind of salvation plan that I
have just described to you. It is a salvation plan that sounds unfair
and perhaps even illogical to a mind that is darkened by sin. And that is
why a supernatural act of God[46,
13] is required to bring a spiritually dead soul to
life, apart from any choice or action on the part of the spiritually dead
sinner.
|
If we have not been
regenerated by the Holy Spirit we are incapable of choosing the kind
of God and kind of salvation plan that has just been described to you.
We either cannot comprehend it or we don't like it. In fact we
don't like any salvation plan that puts us entirely at the mercy of
God. This lost situation we find ourselves in does not remove
from us the responsibility to completely obey God's commands (all
the time) nor does it remove from us the guilt (and punishment due
to us) for our many violations of God's commands. |
Al N. Arminian: Ok Clark.
It's my turn to ask you some questions. Why should God let YOU into
heaven?
Clark A. Calvinist: He shouldn't. I don't deserve anything
but God's wrath for my sins[1]... But... there is one BIG thing in my
favor.
Al N. Arminian: What's that
Clark?
Clark A. Calvinist: Christ died for my sins[2]. He paid the
complete penalty for all my sins[3]. Even the penalty for the sin of
unbelief[4], which was a sin I perpetrated until GOD gave me spiritual life
and opened my spiritual eyes. His Son became the scapegoat, the Lamb of
God[5] slain for my sins and so now that my sin penalty has been paid in
full, I cannot be punished and I am fit for heaven[6].
Al N. Arminian: How do you know that you are one
of God's elect?
Clark A. Calvinist: Because, the Spirit of Promise bears
witness with my spirit that I am a son of God[7], and I examined myself to
see if I was indeed in the faith[8]. According to scripture, my new
nature is that of a converted man[9].
"Christ in me" enabled me to
repent (turn from my sins) and gave me a love of truth and righteousness and
holiness[10]. And since these things are the essence of God and since
fellowship with this holy and righteous God for all eternity is the essence
of heaven[11], this is where I now belong and where I long to be.
Al N. Arminian: But did you accept Jesus as your
Savior?
Clark A. Calvinist: Al, you're putting the cart before the horse
again. In order for me to receive salvation, God first had to make
sure that I first came under the hearing of the preaching of the gospel[11a]
and then He had to convict me of my sin[11b] and
convert me. My salvation was all the work of God[2],
not the result of me accepting Christ or praying some prayer.
AFTER God regenerated me through the
indwelling of the Holy Spirit[12], how could I not accept Jesus as my Savior
... and King and Lord and Master and Mediator and Advocate and my "All In All"? Once GOD removed my heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh[13] I
became a new creature in Christ[14]. I could finally hear my Shepherd's
voice[15] in order to be able to follow Him. I finally had a heart willing
and able to obey Him and to accept Him for all that He is. And it is
by this miraculous work of grace and mercy in me on the part of God Almighty
that I am now fit for heaven, a new creature in Christ[15a],
a child of God [15b] and a saint of God [15c].
Al N. Arminian: I still
don't believe any of that. Your plan of salvation sounds like a
license to sin.
Clark A. Calvinist: Jesus once told a man named Simon the
following: "There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed
five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay,
he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him
most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most.
And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged." [Luke 7:41-43].
Similarly, a man who by God's grace, understands the holiness of God and the
depth of his own sin and the fact that he was and is totally at the mercy of God,
will strive to please His Lord and Master by fleeing from sin and diligently
seeking after righteousness. And it is ONLY by way of the new nature
he RECEIVED from GOD that the converted sinner is willing and able to do this.
To God alone be the glory!
|
"Is it not lawful for me to do
what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last
shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."
[Matthew 20:15-16]
|
FOOTNOTES (Scripture References):
[1] Ephesians 1:6 "To the
praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us
accepted in the beloved."
[2] Romans 5:6 "For when we were yet without
strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." AND Matthew 1:21
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for
he shall save his people from their sins."
[3] Hebrews 7:25 "Wherefore he is able also
to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever
liveth to make intercession for them." AND 1John 1:7 "...the blood of
Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all
sin."
[4] James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep
the whole law, and yet offend in one point,
he is guilty of all.
[5] John 1:29 "The next day John seeth Jesus
coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of
God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
[6] 1Peter 3:18 "For Christ also hath once
suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit"
[7] Romans 8:16 "The Spirit itself beareth
witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God"
[8] 2Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves,
whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own
selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
[9] Ezekiel 36:27 "And I will put my spirit
within you, and cause you to walk in
my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
[10] Psalms 119:24 "Thy testimonies also are
my delight and my counsellors."
[11] Psalms 5:4 "For thou art not a God that
hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee."
[11a] Romans 10:14
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how
shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they
hear without a preacher?"
[11b] John 16:7-8
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:
for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,
I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of
sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment"
[12] Titus 3:5 "Not by works of righteousness
which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the
washing of regeneration, and renewing of
the Holy Ghost"
[13] Ezekiel 36:25 "Then will I sprinkle
clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and
from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I
give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh,
and I will give you an heart of flesh."
[14] 2Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man
be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away;
behold, all things are become new."
[15] John 10:27 "My sheep
hear my voice, and I know them, and
they follow me"
[15a] 2Corinthians
5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old
things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
[15b] 1John 3:1
"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we
should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not,
because it knew him not."
[15c] Philippians
4:21 "Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with
me greet you."
[16] Matthew 25:21 "His lord said unto him, Well
done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few
things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of
thy lord."
[17] Ephesians 2:1 "And you hath he
quickened, who were dead in
trespasses and sins;" AND Colossians 2:13 "And you,
being dead in your sins and the
uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having
forgiven you all trespasses;
[18] Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is
enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed
can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
[19] Ephesians 1:6 "To the praise of the
glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us
accepted in the beloved."
[20] Roman 10:3 "For they being ignorant of
God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness,
have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."
[21] Isaiah 29:16 "Surely
your turning of things upside down shall
be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of him that
made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed
it, He had no understanding?"
[22] Romans 9:21 "Hath not the potter power
over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another
unto dishonour?"
[23] Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth
a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save
his people from their sins."
[24] Romans 9:22 "What if God, willing to
shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering
the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known
the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared
unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only,
but also of the Gentiles?"
[25] John 8:33 "They answered him, We be
Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage
to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus
answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin
is the servant of sin. 35 And
the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."
[26] John 15:16 "Ye have not chosen me,
but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring
forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask
of the Father in my name, he may give it you." AND Revelation 3:19 "As
many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."
[27] Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth
to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his
righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the
forbearance of God"
[28] Matthew 22:10 "So those servants went
out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both
bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when
the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a
wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in
hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then
said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away,
and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of
teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen."
[29] 2Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for
all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but
unto him which died for them, and rose again."
[30] 1Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural
man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are
foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned."
[31] 2Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack
concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to
us–ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
repentance."
[32] John 6:39 "And this is the Father’s will
which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
[33] Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait
gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to
destruction, and many there be which go in
thereat"
[34] John 3:16 "For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should
not perish, but have everlasting life."
[35] Isaiah 6:5 "Then said I, Woe is me! for
I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of
a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of
hosts."
[36] Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I
am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not
that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked"
[37] Matthew 25:11 "Afterward came also the
other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
[38] John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the
will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,
but of God."
[39] Revelation 12:11 "And they
overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their
testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
[40] Galatians 1:6-9 "I marvel that ye
are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto
another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you,
and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from
heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached
unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any
man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be
accursed."
[41] Isaiah 59:1-4 "Behold, the LORD’S
hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it
cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God,
and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. For
your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips
have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. None calleth
for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak
lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
[42] Ephesians 1:4-6 "According as
he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we
should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated
us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according
to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace,
wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."
[43] Matthew 20:15-16 "Is it not
lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I
am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called,
but few chosen."
[44] Proverbs 16:9 "A man’s heart
deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps."
[45] Proverbs 16:2 "All the ways of a
man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits."
[46] Jonah 1:9 "Salvation is of the
LORD."
[47] John 6:37 "All that the Father
giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no
wise cast out."
[48] John 3:26 "And they came unto
John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom
thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to
him."
[49] Revelation 7:9 "After this I
beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all
nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne,
and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
[50] Contrary to the thinking of many
professing Christians, salvation is not a participatory act between God and
man. Those who are lost are spiritually dead and so are unable to
participate. Though Christ commands them to come, they are unable to
do so until God takes the first step and makes the dead alive, the lame to
walk, the blind to see and the deaf to hear.
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